Friday, December 03, 2010

Day 18* → Your views on gay marriage.

*of this

Oh and how badly is this one going to go down.
*ducks and braces herself for virtual onslaught of fruit in various stages of decay being thrown at her head*

I've been dreading this topic because my views are not PC and the internet is notorious for vicious anonymous attacks. But then, I suppose it is good to be challenged on such things and for me to have to actual explore what I believe.

I think that this topic is a bit narrow. For the most part I don't think gay marriage is what the issue is about.

It's kind of like everyone tuning the pope about having an issue with contraception. They moan because he is against condoms, they say that his stance contributes to the spread of Aids. What they fail to mention is that the pope also is against sex outside of marriage, promiscuity, etc. If they take his full message then the spread of Aids shouldn't be a result of his stance. (please let's not start a catholic bashing session here, I am not against contraception myself and there's much that I don't necessarily agree with in catholicism, but that is besides the point. the point here is about logic or the lack thereof).

Wow... this really is such a loaded topic. I'm a bit unsure where to start.

My hesitation is this:
In short, I'm not for gay marriage and so I suppose I am against it. But if I left it there, with no context, I'd be grossly misrepresenting myself and my faith.

I believe that homosexuality is sin. I also believe that premarital sex is sin. I believe that lying is sin, that slander is sin, that self righteousness is sin. Obviously I sin too, although I try not to.

The bible doesn't talk much about degrees of sin, but to me one of the most repugnant of all sins is hypocrisy.

I am not going to judge a gay couple, or a couple who are sleeping together outside of marriage, unless they call themselves christian. Does that sound a bit weird? I'll try explain.

Synonymous with being a christian is striving toward a biblical standard for your life, Christ-likeness. It is both an awesome privilege to be able to call yourself christian and a weighty responsibility.

In the bible there is an example of a woman caught in adultery. Jesus' famous response to the crowd who are preparing to stone her is "he who is without sin should cast the first stone". The crowd sheepishly disperses. THEN He goes to the women and tells her to leave her life of sin.

The point is that Jesus is against us judging others, but he is ALSO against her life of sin and tells her to leave it.

The biblical exception is among believers. Believers are expected to keep one another accountable.

“If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the
two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. But if they will not
listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector." (Matthew 18:15 - 18)

I wonder if that sounds controlling, scary, overbearing to you? Actually I see this as one of the gifts of being part of a church community. I couldn't handle being surrounded by a bunch of "Yes-men". Instead I'm surrounded by people who hold me true to my beliefs and values, rather than to my emotions. Emotions are short term and can be fickle - there could, for example, be a colleague of mine who makes me feel special. Perhaps at this time I am feeling particularly down on myself and TheBand is busy, stressed, overlooking me, or whatever. And so I respond to the colleague because he fulfils an emotional need at that time and voila. Disaster.

In such a case I have no doubt that I have plenty of friends who would call me on it before anything had happened and hopefully spare me from a disastrous situation and the same goes for The Band. He is surrounded by people who value us and our marriage and hold us to our vows.

If a christian were to tell me she was gay I'd have to discourage her from pursuing that lifestyle in the same way that I can't agree with my christian friends living with their boyfriends. The reason is that it is hypocritical. You choose to strive toward a biblical standard for your life or you don't. You are christian or you aren't. We all get to choose.

If a non-christian is gay or lives with their boyfriend I have no place to judge because they are not purporting to live by any other standard.

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESH I hope I've explained this right.


Gina said...

First off, well done on being brave enough to voice your opinion even knowing that it is one that doesnt 'gel' with the 'majority'.

Second, I think you explained yourself exceptionally well and I for one am glad that you did, its not a point of view I would have thought of before, not being Christian (or particularly religious in my own religion) myself.

Thank you for taking the time to write this post!!!

Anonymous said...

Even if you still get lots of negative comments, I agree with you 100% and think you put it extremely well, well done.

Lotus07 said...

Basically, what you are saying is that if you are homosexual ............don't be religious....or don't be a hypocrite. .... I think.....what was the question again?

B said...

i do think you explained yourself very well.

i have a couple of points though and i would be interested in your opinion.

1) if someone is gay they are gay. it's not something they can choose to change. if they follow these rules, they are effectively condemning themselves to a live without a life partner, and to denying a major part of their nature. as someone who is married yourself, are you really saying that gay people should not have this option? that they do not deserve the closeness and love that come only with a spouse? because i can't imagine living without my husband, living without someone who gets me in just about every way. it makes me really sad that the only way gay people can be christian, by these rules, is by denying a major part of their nature. i think that i would not be complete if i had to give up my husband to live a christian life. i'm not christian, but i think it would be a horrendous shame for people to actually leave the church - christianity (specifically) is very important to some people, and i think it's awful to say they effectively need to deny a major part of their nature to be a part of the christian church.

i don't believe that living with someone before marriage is comparable. possibly living with someone if you have no plans to ever marry is, but not living with someone before marriage, because effectively once they are married they will be a-ok (presuming they confess, i guess, if we're specifically talking catholicism).

2) marriage isn't specifically a christian thing. you can be pro-gay-marriage and still against christian gays marrying. if you have no problem with non-christians being gay, then why can't they get married? if that's what you mean then i think this is unfair. marriage these days does not always take place in a church (although to be fair it might be different in SA; apologies if so). to deny every single gay person the right to get get married just because it's against the christian faith is wrong, in my mind.

i hope your comments remain a respectful discussion rather than personal attacks :) don't forget you can always delete any abusive comments you get! :)

cassey said...

I agree that you explained yourself well. The one sticky point for me is that your view is because of what is in the bible; only the bible has been written/edited by man. Yes, God was the author who told a scribe, but the church put it out there. I don't think this is coming out well :-/

MeganTS said...

As Gina said, well done on being brave enough to say hat you have, even though it runs against the more popular flow of now.

While i don't agree with you, i think you've explained yourself incredibly well and what you said does make sense, rather than the usual religious NO NO NO way of putting things across :-)

Anonymous said...

Well done, you put into words a really difficult-to-verbalise opinion. I think you have just given me the answer to what I would need to say if I was asked the same question because I 100% feel the same on all the topics to included. No sex before marriage and a large majority of the worlds problems would be reduced.

Caz said...

Wow.. such a loaded topic, hey :)
Thanks for all being respectful in your comments and not throwing anything at me (yet).

@B I disagree with point 1 (now I'm REALLY going to be in trouble!) - I don't think people are born gay. I think that some people might be born with a propensity towards homosexuality, obesity, addictive behaviour, sportiness, a good voice, a bad voice, etc. From there it's a choice whether to pursue that lifestyle. BUT i think that more often people's life circumstances result in them choosing to be gay. This is what I have witnessed in my gay friends and is admittedly not a scientifically based opinion.

2. I have to agree with you there to an extent, however I don't think that homosexuality is God's intention and so I guess I disagree with it from that perspective as well. (BUT ALWAYS judging the sin not the sinner if that makes sense).

@cassey - I understand what you mean, but I believe that a God who is powerful enough to create Heaven and Earth would be powerful enough to ensure that His Word is accurately written/edited. In revelations somewhere there is a dire warning to anyone who tampers with the Word of God.

hope that makes sense?

cassey said...

Caz, it does make sense. It's just I have a hard time believing that the bible wasn't tampered with. Anyhow your post was still great :)

B said...

i don't agree; the gay people i know have always known they were 'other' and have never been happy if they have tried to hide it. also, there is a list here on wikipedia that details physiological differences between gay and straight people - - apparently gay and straight people emit different underarm odours!!!! how crazy is that?! (but i do accept that cause and effect may have some part in it.)

anyway, your mileage obviously varies to mine, so we will agree to differ then :) good debate anyway!

clare said...

So were you a virgin when you got married, is that a rude question? if so, sorry its just that walking up the aisle nowadays a virgin is surely unusual, my Mum did 50 years ago though.

Anonymous said...

I'm the same anonymous from the other day:
I walked up the aisle a virgin at the age of 24, two years ago.

It does still happen and I am so glad I waited.

Lara said...

Hmmm... Well written and although I disagree I do commend you for putting your point across tactfully.

While I respect your opinion, I do feel that it cannot be written off that homosexual people choose that way of life. Why would they? To be judged and cast aside by society - who would want to have to put up with that?

I say that with all conviction because a family member of mine was homosexual and what he had to go through just to be accepted as a person, well, I'm not sure that I would be as brave and would probably continue to live my life not being true to myself and those around me.

I will be honest, if my daughter (who is 2 now) grew up to be homosexual I can't say that it would be the life that I would choose for her. But I only say that because I have seen how society treats what is deemed "wrong", and I would not wish that way of life for my daughter. But ultimately if that is what makes her happy and most importantly true to herself, then I would stand by her no matter what.

I suppose what I am getting at is that, from what I know, there is no conclusive proof that people are not born homosexual.

Thanks for an interesting stance on all view points with your post.

Caz said...

@clare Not a rude question (let's face it, I've put myself on the line here anyway!) but I do think my virginity is besides the point. Please remember that I did say that I do sin, though I try not to. I don't want you to think that I'm implying that I am some wonderful person - I'm not.
All that aside, since you asked, yes, I was a virgin when I walked down the aisle and so was my husband. (Check out the header pic... can you see the anticipation in those eyes? hahaha)

clare said...

LOL I do love that header pic, and well done both of you! You are such an amazing and inspiring person. What a post!

clare said...

Hey where are you????

Angel said...

Very well put. Very well put indeed. You are braver than I am.

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Anonymous said...

If your open to it- I'd read "Committed" by Elizabeth Gilbert, author of "Eat, Pray, Love". I don't suggest it to change your belief because I have respect for that. I offer it as a suggestion to have more information about the history of marriage. The author gives some interesting information that I did know and weaves it into the the story of how she prepared for marriage. It's challenging to read at times but worth it.